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 Post subject: Rudder options?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:28 am 
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Location: Spring Hill, FL
I know you've discussed this before, but I would like to see a plan set for a rudder, maybe a "generic" one that could be adapted to several, if not all of your designs. And maybe at least a "partial kit" that would include the fastening hardware that might be a bit much for some of us builders to take on.

Along that line, I like the way Mick made a rudder control that had hinged peddles. It looked to me like with a fixed bottom part of the peddle and the upper part hinged, you could use them as foot braces and rudder controls at the same time.

I'm not all that interested in using a rudder while just paddling, but when fishing, I can see where one could come in very handy.

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:14 am 
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That's on the "to-do" list. I could probably draw up a rudder blade that would work well with:

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/hardware/p- ... /index.htm

2 of those, a quick release pin (or bolt), rudder blade, steering cable, footbraces... you'd have it! :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:40 am 
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Location: Queensland, Australia
Mike,

If you like, I will measure up mine and try to do a drawing of it and send it to you. I would recommend an aluminium blade though. The ply one on my South Wind is a little light. It works fine for me but a 3mm one in alumium would be better. :D

Provided you have access to a table saw or router table and a drill press they are not at all hard to make. Just a little time consuming.

The duckworks mounting bracket would make the whole thing a lot quicker and probably better - as would their steering/footbraces.

You will need the rudder blade to drop at least 5 or 6 inches below the bottom of the boat.

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Mick

JEMWATERCRAFT Swampgirl; Wadefish;Touring Pirogue;South Wind; P5 ;
Laker X 2, Sasquatch 16.5 T-V 15 Okwata 15:
Cobia 15 (under construction)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:59 am 
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The blade floating up would be a potential issue. If a person wanted to use plywood, you could hold in place with a bungee cord.

Or, you could drill out some holes in the bottom of the blade, and encapsulate some ball bearing or bird shot in epoxy in the bottom of the blade.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:18 am 
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Location: South-central Michigan
Let me make an anatomical suggestion. When hinging the rudder pedals, take a hint from the aircraft industry.

Don't hinge them at the bottom. Put the hinge up a ways. It requires less ankle flexure and - if properly located - no leg extension or retraction.

I've never studied the placement, but when thinking about it, it isn't all that difficult. First, I'd have a small shelf on the bottom of the pedal for a heel rest. This fixes the position of the foot on the pedal. Next, the hinge point should probably be on a straight-line extension of the shin bone through the ankle joint. That should eliminate any need to retract or extent a leg as the pedal rotates.

This is just "first draft thinking". Others ought to chime in with thoughts. We may actually have someone out there who designs orthopedic devices and knows what the hell they're talking about.

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Doing what you like is FREEDOM
Liking what you do is HAPPINESS
I spent most of my money on whiskey and women - and I'm afraid I just wasted the rest.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:20 pm 
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Location: Spring Hill, FL
Well now. It looks like most everything needed for adding a rudder to just about any boat is already available! :D

The gudgeons from Duckworks look like they could solve several engineering problems. Attaching them to the boat looks to be very straight forward and easy enough, and a second pair could be used to make a modified version of Mick's rudder pivot bracket, I think. Using the second pair for that would solve my problem of not having access to a drill press.

As for the rudder itself, with a basic drawing to work from, a plywood rudder would be easy to make. The builder could adapt a "generic" rudder's top end to work with a hardwood bracket with a pair of the Duckworks gudgeons mounted on it. (Using the second set of gudgeons instead of having to drill out that long hole through the bracket like Mick did.)

As for adding weight to the rudder in order to avoid using a bungee to keep it down, I'd think it wouldn't be much trouble to pound a couple of lead egg sinkers flat enough to embed in the rudder blade, before glassing it. Then again, Matt's idea of using bird shot would probably be even easier.

That leaves just the rudder pedals to deal with. What Mick did in his rudder build, (in the Builder's Log section of this Forum,) looks lot like what Jack was talking about, doesn't it?

Would these foot braces from Duckworks work for this? http://www.duckworksbbs.com/hardware/canoe-kayak/rudder-fb/index.htm It looks like it could be used "as is," but adding a heel rest like Jack mentioned shouldn't be any problem.

The way this thread is going, I'm just about convinced to add this to my Southwind build, before I even get the plans! :D

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:26 pm 
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When it comes to rudders, Mike, we'll try not to steer you astray. (Pun somewhat intended, even if accidental.)

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Doing what you like is FREEDOM
Liking what you do is HAPPINESS
I spent most of my money on whiskey and women - and I'm afraid I just wasted the rest.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:09 am 
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Location: Queensland, Australia
Mike,

I have just taken delivery of a pair of Duckworks fine foot braces but I haven't had the time to properly check them out yet.

I read on the Duckworks site that they are pretty easy to modify into steering pedals. Will let you know.

At any rate, they are a way superior foot brace to what I can get locally. Southwind doesn't really need a rudder and from all reports neither does the Freedom.

If the boat tracks well, a rudder is hardly worth all the extra work to make and fit IMHO. I would recommend you build the boats and when you do, make provision for retro fitting a rudder - end pours etc. and then make the decision after you have paddled them a few times.

I am guessing that the 15 foot version of the Southwind will track as well as mine, be more manouverable and even better to fish from - in other words, a thing of rare beauty :D

An end pour in the stern, big enough to take the duckworks rudder mounts should be all you need to fit a rudder later if you so choose. :D

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Regards,
Mick

JEMWATERCRAFT Swampgirl; Wadefish;Touring Pirogue;South Wind; P5 ;
Laker X 2, Sasquatch 16.5 T-V 15 Okwata 15:
Cobia 15 (under construction)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:16 pm 
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Location: Spring Hill, FL
Thanks, Mick, I'm looking forward to reading what you think about those foot braces. As for the rudder, if not really useful, then I'd not want the added complication.

I rather thought you advocated the use of a rudder for fishing, though. Not so much for basic paddling about.

As for retro-fitting a rudder with the Duckworks' bits & pieces, I'd say it's not so much a question of the end-pour, and more along the lines of adding some cleats on the inside to support the fasteners for the gudgeons.

Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:38 pm 
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Location: Queensland, Australia
G'day Mike,

On my Southwind, a rudder is of benefiet to me in two ways.

1. It allows dorectional control during glide. I can stop paddling some distance from where I was to fish and just gilde in to exactly where I want to fish. - absolute stealth.

2. The other thing is that I like to use a single blade canoe paddle with this boat. A rudder helps me to maintain directional control - easily without the use of "J" strokes etc.

The boat itself, does not need a rudder to just paddle. It tracks beautifully as is - even with a single blade. The rudder just makes things a little easier. :D

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Regards,
Mick

JEMWATERCRAFT Swampgirl; Wadefish;Touring Pirogue;South Wind; P5 ;
Laker X 2, Sasquatch 16.5 T-V 15 Okwata 15:
Cobia 15 (under construction)


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