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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:09 am
Do you have or will you be offering any strip Kayak plans? I will probably do one more S&G before trying strip but considering your generous offering of the free Laker is what got me onto this hobby (Or maybe it's an addiction) I would like to be able to fill your coffers rather than someone else.
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:10 am
I've thought about it and creating those plans isn't too big of a chore.
I've only played with some strips and never completed an entire boat. So I could probably provide the stations/forms and refer someone to one of the numerous books about the build technique.
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:54 am
Hmmm a 15' Laker in strips, rounded off a bit, so less "box-like" I like the sound of that.
Don't get me wrong I love my Laker to bits, it's bloody awesome and performs way above my expectations.
I do however, firmly believe the S&G market suffers undeservedly because of the lack of compound curves and the resultant boxiness. I don't mean this to sound insulting, just my opinion.
I don't personally know whether or not the lack of cuves enhances or detracts from performance. Curves are sexy.
A curvaceous Laker! I cannot for the life of me see how it could fail.
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:17 am
If I understand things correctly, Laker was originally intended as a basic kayak. Something a first time builder could manage fairly easily and cheaply.Sort of, an entry level recreational kayak.
The fact the she performs so well took me by surprise and has me re-think many of my previous ideas about kayak design. I think any of the current model Lakers could be built well by a careful first time builder and this has filled a very big gap in the market.
Curves are nice and I love me multi panel hulls but I am not convinced that the little extra performance gained is worth all the extra effort in the build.
Strippers are real nice to look at and even better to paddle but I keep asking myself are they sufficiently that much better than a S&G boat that they justify the several hundred percent increase in work, skill and expense required. (Cedar strips are very expensive here if you can get them at all.) At the moment, I don't think they are.
Now, a very good, multi panel, S&G, kayak is another thing entirely. This would give something like the curves and style of a stripper with about half of the work.
Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:15 am
Totally agree with you Mick about Laker being a perfect first timer. Hell it was so straightforward I could do it
The point I was trying to make though, was that given it IS such an excellent performer tells me that the ... I'll call it aquadynamics
are about perfect, or at least as good as an S&G can ever get to be.
Someone at my level of paddling cannot help but be pleased by it and to be honest I don't know if my experience would help me get much more out of very expensive storebought curvy boat.
The bit that goes into the water works. leave it alone. I was meaning more the edges that are above the waterline. I s'pose there's nothing to stop anyone fiddling with the design and goodness knows I thought about putting a few curves into it as I was building it.
I spose it comes back to the individual personalising the look.
As a learning tool the Laker is everything you could need. However I believe that it's too good a concept not to consider expanding upon.
Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:58 am
Take a drive across the bridge to Bribie Island and ask the bloke with the kayak business there (in Bongaree) if you can take one of his kayaks for a test paddle (any one of them)
He is a very good bloke and likes to do stuff like this and he has a good range of various brand rec, sea and sit on top kayaks.
You will find your Laker will perform as well on flat water as any of the curvy factory jobs he has and better than most of them.
About the only possible improvement I can think of on this boat would be a small sloping panel from the cockpit coaming down to about 1 1/2" lower on the sides. This would, I think, create the curves you seek and possibly overcome the slab sidedness you mention but it would also increase the difficulty of build for little practical gain.
There is a very special kayak on the drawing board now with all the curves one could ever want. Not a Laker, to be sure, but something that I think is going to be a great boat with style, grace and symmetry.
Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:46 am
I think a Laker hybrid would work out well; leave the hull as is and strip the deck. But, my original question was not to change one of the existing S&Gs but to see if Matt would be venturing down the stripper route.
I don't doubt that the S&Gs can perform as well as a stripper, my interest is more experience based. I would like to build a stripper as well as some of the other stuff I have seen out there like the poly skins and such.
It helps get it past the accountant as well; "Why do you need another boat?", "But honey, this one is a <insert style here>,"
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:05 pm
I posted more photos of this in the out and about section. I built the Touring Pirogue as a strip built boat.
I built a cedar strip kayak previously and it took forever. In fact when I started I had no children, by the time I was done I had two. The problem was I couldn't fit my boys in it with me and I needed a quick solution to build a boat this Spring, so stitch and glue is what I chose.
I have been reading the forums here since January and everyone has been raving about Matt's boats. I wanted to build a sit on top, but it wouldn't solve my problem of taking my boys out. Even though I live in an area where I can get marine ply, I never seemed to have time. Therefore, I thought why not make my own plywood out of cedar and pine strips. I had plenty of both types of wood.
I think that building a laker would be easy to do utilizing this method. In fact I may build my wife one. What is nice about building it this way, on flat panels cut to shape as templates (instead of with curved forms) is you can just rip 2X material and use the 1 1/2 inch wide strips. This makes for half the glue joints. You also don't need cove and bead strips. Although If I do it again, I will probably use cove and bead strips. You get a little more glue surface area and less chance of a see through boat. Also, I didn't think of this myself until it was too late, but I could have use $6/ sheet oriented strand board rather than luan for the templates. It would have made using the flush cutting bit easier.
I would estimate that by using cedar strips rather than plywood for this build only added about 5 to ten hours of build time. It also made fiber glassing the inside easier since I did the insides prior to stitching while the panels were flat. This lead to less runs and less sanding.
However, these are Matt's designs and I am not an engineer so I would run it past him.
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:22 pm
I have to weigh in here.
I paddle with a lot of folks and most are in plastic curvey boats, I have been around one boat that was realy fast and it was 19 ft long 18 inches wide, now she would fly.Off course the downside was he stayed upside down a lot on the trip we were making, and he wasn't that much faster than my T-V which was 10 inches widder and 4 ft shorter, and I stayed on top.
Look at a k1 yak pure performance, the ones I see here are pretty hard chined, others may be different but these are built for river racing.
I like the stich and glue and like Mick I don't think the little bit of gain is worth all the effert for the stripping,
Just completed the Laker 15 5 a in 15 days will try it out tomorrow but
a stripper would not have been half finished.
My 2 cents
Now when you get down to looks the strippers are awesome and outshine the stich and glue.
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:29 pm
I did see your thread and eagerly await a build log to see how it's done.
I agree, strip takes longer and is not a performance boost but I love the look of them and I want to experience building one. The whole forms and strongback thing turns me off a bit so whatever Craig did has my interest.