North Wind, South Wind, yadda yadda yadda.

Post by **jem** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:43 am

Greetings all. This thread was in a private design review forum but I thought it would be nice to move this for all to see.

Getting closer on the decked touring canoe series. Made the name change from "Zephyrus" to "North Wind" since I'll be doing several decked canoes.

http://www.jemwatercraft.com/proddetail.php?prod=Zeph17

The new CNC shop is a little more pricey but more convienient and gives me more control. I can label and pack the parts myself. Debating about to just hand write the parts or perhaps print out the labels.

Labels would look more professional than my chicken scratch handwriting but I'm worried about them falling off. Stickers don't stick too well to wood. I guess some trial and error may be needed.

hairymick · Post by **hairymick** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:05 pm

G'day Matt,

I reckon both boats are going to be winners. I've been showing your piccies to people round hre and the ooohs and aaahs they've been getting is really surprising. Your North Wind/Zeph seems to be geting the most praise at the moment.

beautiful boat. All these buggers need is a confidence boost to have a go.

Re the labelling, perhaps if you mark the panels in something really simple like A,B,C, etc and then put corresponding markings on your build instructions?

The pencil marks are easily erased after the butt joints are done.

Merry Christmas mate, to you and yours. Stay safe and keep the good work coming.

Kayak Jack · Post by **Kayak Jack** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:26 pm

Matt, looking at prices of competitors' kits, you're about 50% under priced. Unless you aren't including glass & glue etc.

Kayak Jack · Post by **Kayak Jack** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:27 pm

What are you wagging on weight? 50 lb?

Post by **jem** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:33 pm

North Wind kit, complete, will run about $1200 including delivery if they buy everything through me.

If they buy glas and epoxy on their own, maybe save $20,

If they cut their own panels, well they'll save up to $500. I might have to review the prices and look for savings. I might be able to nip $50 off of the total but CNC work is just expensive.

What cranks the price of the plywood kit up is having to have 5 sheets of plywood for the Sea Wind (North Wind).

Mick's South Wind would be about $80-$100 cheaper because it only needs 4 sheets of ply.

I show a conservative guess at 60 pounds. Skilled builder should hit low 50s without much trouble.

Kayak Jack · Post by **Kayak Jack** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:39 pm

May I suggest some hints from 'speienced builders to seriously cut that weight? 60 pounds is a HELLUVA portage load while stumbling along rock & tree studded trails. It would aid the positive word of mouth advertising that is going to go along ahead of this boat's travels.

This is a WORLD class hull. It is not something for a specific, little locale.

hairymick · Post by **hairymick** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:00 am

This is a WORLD class hull. It is not something for a specific, little locale

Oooooh Jack, Good shot mate

I couldn't agree with you more. I love the lines of this boat too. (and will probably end up building one)

I also believe that the South Wind will develop a strong following with those who appreciate a slightly sleeker hull shape and less wind signature.

Smaller versions of these boats could also be very good things.

You would know much more about portaging than I but I wouldn't worry too much about the weight thing. Those who are looking at doing tough portages will probably choose a smaller boat anyway. in any event, 60 pounds is not heavy for a 17 foot canoe, let alone, a 17 foot WORLD class, expedition capable, decked canoe.

My 14 foot fibreglass canadian is heavier than that and the plastic jobs are heavier again.

Post by **jem** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:18 am

Kayak Jack wrote:May I suggest some hints from 'speienced builders to seriously cut that weight? 60 pounds is a HELLUVA portage load while stumbling along rock & tree studded trails. It would aid the positive word of mouth advertising that is going to go along ahead of this boat's travels.

This is a WORLD class hull. It is not something for a specific, little locale.

It won't be easy. It's a lot of boat. Thinner ply would cut weight but not be as strong.

Kayak Jack · Post by **Kayak Jack** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:07 am

Matt,

I believe I understand. For the panels below water line, which would add more strength per pound - double glassing or a tad thicker wood? Side panels could be 4mm. Decks, coaming, and (shudder) bulkheads) could be 3 mm. Thin stringers laid along length of floor panels would stiffen them too.

I would suggest omitting bulkheads for boats used in portage environments.

Post by **jem** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:34 am

if a builder were to go with thinner ply, they's have to do it all over because the the panels for the bottom panels are nested right along with the rest of the hull panels.

That, or you'd have to spend some bucks on extra plywood and have a lot left over.

I did a calculation with having the deck made from 3mm and the rest 4mm. It only netted about 3-4 pounds of weight savings.

I also allow for a heavier boat. There's so many seams and the filleting material to fill them adds up. Perhaps I'm estimating too much needed material for that. But even then, it's the weight of the plywood that adds up. 32 pounds is what I estimate.

I suppose also that if a builder were to use 3mm plywood and 4-ounce s-glass, that would save a decent amount of weight. I'm debating wether or not to mention these options.