Question & Poll

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If you purchase a set of boat plans from a designer, should you pay the designer/seller every time you build another boat from that same set of plans?

Yes
11
69%
No
4
25%
Other ( Please explain in forum below )
1
6%
 
Total votes: 16

Wimperdink
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Question & Poll

Post by Wimperdink »

A question was posted, in another forum that I frequent, that really perked my interest. The other forum doesn't have great deal of people that are interested in this brand of fun so I thought I'd carry the question here.

The Question:
If you purchase a set of boat plans from a designer, should you pay the designer/seller every time you build another boat from that same set of plans?

This question is posed towards individuals who are buying plans to build boats for his/her own personal use.

The question does not include plans that, prior to sale, list in a "terms of sale" that the plans are sold and intended to be for 1 single boat. It also does not include people that intend to "mass" produce boats for scouting groups, shop classes, for sale, or any other profitable intentions as that would qualify for another discussion entirely.

Now withholding, for a moment, my opinions, I'd like to hear how others feel about this.
Last edited by Wimperdink on Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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jem
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Post by jem »

I'll chime in and of course say yes, you should pay the designer for each boat you build from the same plans. All the plans that JEM Watercraft sell clearly state this at the very beginning of the plans.

Now that being said, I typically will work with a builder and their situation. If they built it, loved it, send me pictures and feedback, well that's worth $$ to me. I also will discount/comp things for youth groups and the like.

It also depend on which model of plans.

So as a general rule, I'll say yes absolutely, you should pay for each hull you build. But I reserve the right to modify that for each given situation. :wink:
-Matt. Designer.
Oldsparkey
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Post by Oldsparkey »

OK.
I will play the part of the Devils advocate.

When you purchase the plans to make your own boat from the boat designer they become the property of the person who purchased them. In my way of thinking this lets the builder build as many as he or she wants from that one set of plans for there personal use.

UNLESS IT IS SPECIFIED THAT THEY ARE FOR ONLY ONE BOAT.

Now if someone is building the boats for resale then the designer should be entitled to a percentage of each boat sold since it was meant for personal use for the home builder and not the commercial builder.

It would be catamount to larceny to take the plans and use them commercially. It is really more of a moral issue since the plans and the boat are not protected by the Patent Office , unless there is a patent pending.

In conclusion .....................
My experience has shown that people do build more then one boat from a set of plans ... IE: a boat for the husband and then one for the wife or kids. This would show me that they were extremely happy with the plans and the final item because they wanted another one for a family member to have fun with. That is truly a complement to the designer on a job well done.

Usually they go back to the same designer and get a different model to build. It is six of one a half dozen of the other no matter how you look at it.

Let me pose a question along the same thought , but with a twist.

Let's say I purchase the kit for the Freedom at $599.99 , get my own epoxy and glass and make the boat for $750.00 (round figures ) then I sell the boat to John Doe for $1,800.00. Turn around and get another kit , build another one and sell it , I keep this process up , buying kits , building boats and selling them.
Is the kit maker entitled to a part of my profit ? He has made his profit by selling me the kit. "O" . The designers information is on the boat , not mine. All I did was make it from his kit.
( Forgetting the thought of one kit , one boat, one set of plans ... any amount of boats. )

Chuck.
Remember:
Amateurs built the Ark...... Professionals built the Titanic
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hairymick
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Post by hairymick »

Yep,

One set of plans - one boat. As matt says, the are a license to build one boat only.

anyway, where is the fun in building multiple boats the same?
Regards,
Mick

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dangermouse01
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Post by dangermouse01 »

If you like a boats design and functionality enough to build more than one. You should buy another set of plans, or a least send the designer a check. You probably dont need another set of plans anyways. And it is a way of letting the designer know that you like the design.

Karma happens.:evil:

DM
Oldsparkey
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Post by Oldsparkey »

hairymick wrote:Yep,

One set of plans - one boat. As matt says, the are a license to build one boat only.

anyway, where is the fun in building multiple boats the same?
Mick.......

I'm ....... Playing the devils advocate here......... (I have to admit I only build one from the plans because there is always a different boat I want to build when that one is done)

If you build one and then if it is not worth your while to build another one for a family member then why build the 1st one ?
After all the plans came in to the John Doe Family so why can't they build and use them for there pleasure.

I always thought the idea was to build a great boat and then share the fun with family.
Friends , if they want one , then they can get there own plans and with our web sites help then build one for there use , if they need the help. This is something that is a great selling point because there is a lot of help there for them. Something that was not there when I and a lot of us built our 1st wood boats.:evil:

Now we can build them and share that experience and knowledge to help spread the word about building the boats and the fun we or you can have with them.

Then we including the .......I built it from the plans furnished by So & So..... Here is there web site , contact then and make your own and have some fun.

OK..... Unlike Matt I am not making a dam thing $$$$$$$ wise from my web site but I am having one dam good time helping folks and directing them in the direction they might want to go. Then there are the rest of the nuts on there helping those folks and that is worth more then money in the bank to me........ It is someone having a lot of problems , cussing , sawing wood and wishing there boat floats when it is done. Then when it is all over with and they get in that boat and have a large smile on there face ...... That is all the payment I need and if it a boat from JEM WATERCRAFT or someone else ....... Who cares , they have reached a pinnacle of success by building there own boat.........

Later they can build one like we do from Matt's web site and then the word just spreads......... Just like someone in Florida that builds boats and then tells the world about the pleasures of paddling them , now we have this nut from down under that is doing the same thing...... Dam , It is fun ... Right and we need to keep doing it , if we can do it then anyone can. :wink:

Sometimes the rewards are not in the $$$$ but what you can do to help folks , especially when the folks are willing to help anyway they can , then the $$$ figures into the process when everything is settled or the boat is made .

People 1st , the profit will come later , profit 1st (like some designers I can think of ) and then the people will go someplace else.

Just some ole southernpaddler thinking....... Mine and mine alone.

Dam ...... Wimperdink .... He sure has stirred up a lot of thoughts , GOOD MOVE ...... We needed to wake up and think about things.
Jack , Put ya bowl of Gritz aside and let us know ya thoughts.

Chuck :lol:
Remember:
Amateurs built the Ark...... Professionals built the Titanic
Visit some fine paddlers at The Southern Paddler
Wimperdink
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Post by Wimperdink »

Oldsparkey wrote: Dam ...... Wimperdink .... He sure has stirred up a lot of thoughts , GOOD MOVE ...... We needed to wake up and think about things.
Chuck :lol:
Lol I wasn't trying to stir the pot or anything like that. :lol: It was a question asked in another forum and I though who better to put this question in front of than the crew here.

Honestly, my point of view is this.. If the plans are licensed for 1 boat then it should be advertised as such before payment is made. Under those circumstances I would agree that that set of plans should be used for one boat only and any boats you build following that plan later, that you should pay again.

If its not stated at the time of purchase that the plans are are only licensed for one build, then I feel that you purchased them and you own them. Much alike a pattern for sewing. You can make 3 shirts from one pattery all in diff colors. You dont pay the point of sale for every shirt you intend to make. Now remember this only applies to an individual who purchases the plans for their own use. Nothing commercial or "for profit". <--entirely differant situation

As for the question posed "why would you want to build more than one of the same style?" I've already gone through this with my pirogues. My first one was on a learning curve. I modified the plans and tried another way using everything I'd read on the internet about boat building. Unfortunately, everything I read, doesnt always fit into real life circumstances. Long story short, I didnt glass the bottom of the boat. I just tried to protect the wood with a skin of resin hoping that would water proof it. It worked fine for awhile but eventually checked then started to leak right in the middle of the floor. I chainsawed the boat into sections and broke the sides apart in various places to test the strength of my side to bottom joints to find what worked best for me. Then I started over and built another one with all that I learned from the first one. Same plans.


Now when I saw that question, I automatically assumed that when you purchase a set of plans, that they become yours to use for your own personal use as you see fit.

It raised many questions in my mind wondering if my assumptions were really correct. So I brought the question here to get more opinions. :D


All of this is based around general morality, because lets face it, in reality, any one of us could buy a set of plans from anyone, and build 6 of them, and sell them on the street cornor and noone would be any the wiser.

Just curious to see where everyone else stood. :)

Don't worry Jem, I still have my eye on your freedom 15'4" plans. I just have to make sure I get it right the first time. No practice runs.

Just kidding. :lol: And pictures are all part of the deal. I enjoy others pictures as well so I have no problem posting mine.

I gotta vote now so we can start to even up the odds. :)
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Kayak Jack
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Post by Kayak Jack »

Unless the plans have a contractual agreement stipulated at time of purchase, I, as owner of the plans, now have a right to build as many boats as I like. Makes no difference whether I give them away or sell them.

When I rent a VCR tape, I can watch it as many times as I want during a period of rental. I rent a house, I can eat as many meals in it as I want during time of rental. If I buy a house, I don't have to obey conditions of a previous owner unless they were a part of the contractual agreement at time of purchase.

If "one plan - one boat" is a condition of purchase, then yes, only one boat. Otherwise - millions of boats.
Kayak Jack
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Post by Chalk »

Yes
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hairymick
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Post by hairymick »

While I think that Jack might be correct in the legal sense in that once you buy the plans, you own them, for me it is an ethical question.

In all the drawings that I have seen of Matts, he clearly statest hat he wants us to build one boat only from them. That is good enough for me.
What is legally enforceable and what is right are not allways the same thing.

If I find a boat that I want to build two of, I am happy to pay the extra. If my first build fails, I will probably just build another and learn from my mistakes.
Regards,
Mick

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