potential newbie, should I go for it ?

[io-waiter]

Hi,

I´ve gotten about halfway into the research phase and once I get a source of usable plywood I think I´m going to build a boat.
I started looking at the wide buccaner and got realy interested in the extra wide version, however I´m thinking of starting with http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/gsahv/skiff/skiff.htm to get my skills.

So this is my plan,
Pine or spruce plywood for exterior use will have to do if I can´t get my hands on marine quality.
Polyester epoxy and cheap 300G/sqare meter epoxy weave.
Standard sawdust for fillets, I´m thinking about some chep skeleton applied construction glue on the inside seams of the hull ( one that is 100% water resistant)
Epoxy and primer/sealer with boatpaint on the outside of the hull and oil on the inside.
Air filters for sanding and resin work, various tools and sanding equipment.

So what is it that I need to keep in mind, I want a usable boat that doesn´t rot away in one year, keep i mind though that I want to keep costs down since I see this as a learning project.
I´m located in Sweden if anyone knows some nice suppliers for building material int the Uppsala area I´m all ears.

[jem]

Check out http://www.jemwatercraft.com/International.php

There might be a source that would work for you. Shipping cost will be involved. If you find another source, please let me know and I'll add it to my international list.

Now as far material quality selection, it's not an easy question to answer. Obvisouly the best quality materials will yield the best boat for the long term.

Many times what I here from builders who use less expensive plywood is they wished they had used better ply because they used much more effort and resin to get a decent surface.

Polyester is designed to work as an all-encapsulating entity. It's more like a shell to contain everything and works better if it is applied all at once with a mold. It does not bond anywhere near as good as epoxy. Polyester on top of cured polyester does not even yield a decent bond. It does ok on top of plywood because it uses the wood grain to help. But it's more encapsulating than bonding to it.

Can it be used with stitch and glue building? Yes. A forum member Wimperdink builds his boats this way and seems to have some success. But it requires more attention to detail when building and when not used, the boat should be stored indoors or at least covered to ensure long-term survival (of course you can say that with all boats).

Polyester is also about 20-30% weaker than epoxy. Not as critical on smaller boats but something to be mindful of on a row boat because of the added stresses from rowing. I'll have to defer to the designer of that boat as to what materials and strengths to use.

Polyester also stinks pretty bad and is not as forgiving to mixing errors. Harder to deal with in small batches than a small boat builder will use.

Epoxy is the best choice for amateur builders. Initial cost is more but in the long term, I think you end up coming out ahead.

[io-waiter]

Going up to epoxy is more than 5 times the cost for resin, so with slightly better plywood and fiberglass it´s at the very edge of my budget.
Gotta do some thinking, is the buccaner wide version stable for fishing, 2 persons jerkbaiting pike and is it simple enough for a newbie (as in skipping the tutorial build and go right for the big one) ?

For swedish speaking people an excellent guide to fiber material is.
http://fiber.get.to/
http://www.epotex.se seems to be the best source for high quality epoxy and fibreglass weave in Sweden.

btw, excellent site and a very nice forum

/Henrik

[jem]

The Buc X-tra will handle the program you specifiy. But be mindful of the posted weight range. If you go with a lighter load than the minimum specified, she'll feel a little tippy.

I've actually considered changing that design to make it easier to build and accomodate a wider range of weight loads.

As far as a build project, I wouldn't take on the Buc X-tra as a first time project. For you're first project, try something a little easier.

Perhaps a pirogue? http://jemwatercraft.com/PirogueCompare.php

Or Boat Shelf? http://jemwatercraft.com/proddetail.php?prod=Shelf7

[NeilJ]

I understand your wanting to build a boat you can get wet but your concerns are almost identical to mine. My answer was to build the bookshelves that Matt designed. I used polyester resin, cheap plywood and the design is very manageable and useful when completed. I was able to cut out and assemble (stitch together) and glue up in one weekend. It was a great project, was able to complete in a reasonable amount of time and gave me a good idea about what I was up against with a larger project. GOOD LUCK.

Neil

[Wimperdink]

Everything jem said up there was spot on. Epoxy is a far superior product and if your looking for a long life product that will stay with you for years then I also reccommend epoxy. I've done most of my builds with what you describe. Cheap lumber and polyester resin. My experiance is however if you use poly, you more than definitly need to cover the entire exterior in fiberglass to keep your wood from eventually checking and splitting when left outside for awhile.

I'm all for any builder choosing to use polyester resin and cheap plywood to build a small boat to cut their teeth on their first project. You will make many mistakes and get a lot of education on that first boat that you can carry on to your second boat where you use all the finer materials like epoxy and okume ply.

One more thing.... wheat flour makes a great filler for filets and is easier than sifting saw dust. Its also cheap.

edit: And yes poly does have a pretty powerful smell. You'll want to work in a well ventilated area if your using it.

[Wimperdink]

sorry for double posting but I would like to explain my desires for polyester resin when building a small boat.

When I first decided to build, I was trying to get into a canoe on a budget. I had a lot of trouble deciphering why going through all the trouble to build a boat at the cost equal to buying a plastic boat was more beneficial. Having never done it, the decision tended to lean towards buying a tried and true piece of plastic that would do the same thing and last for many years. But when I went back to my original desire to have one cheap, I decided to go with cheaper materials just to see if I could do it. If I failed I was only out a lil bit of cash. My first boat was not done right by any stretch of the imagination.

It wasn't until I took that boat that was soo full of flaws and education, down to the water and climbed into it for the first time, that I truely understood what building your own boat was all about. There is a great deal of fear that it might sink, then an even greater pride that it didnt. You know every inch of that boat and essentially become one with it. Then comes the comments from the bystanders as your picking their fishing lures from the bushes for them because their only option is to swim for it. They ask "where did you get that boat". Your chest puffs out and exlaim "I built it". The questions and compliments that follow make you realize you can never again ride around in a pretty colored plastic injection moulded kids toy.

Its then you realize you will need to go back and purchase the genuine boat building materials and use your experiance and new found education to build another boat thats even nicer, will last longer, and with less flaws.

When I look back, I would never have taken the initial plunge if the only option was 400 to 600 dollars worth of materials and not knowing if I could do it or not.

That my friend is only the beginning of the story.

[tx river rat]

Matts going tp kill me
But I built the Freedom 15 using polyester for all your reasons plus I had worked it before so was familiar with it
You can look back on some of the pics of my boat and see it turned out ok
Ron

[tx river rat]

Mat
If you built a boat with poly and liked it could you come back put thin coat of epoxy over it I know would make it heavier but would it be a good bond
Ron

[jem]

Poly can be used. We've discussed the tradeoffs. The builder has to make the choice and the results of the choice may not show up until a few months later.

The way I look at it is this: I'd save around $200 if it's like 15' canoe or kayak using poly. But if something goes wrong or gets damaged, I'll have to repair with epoxy. And I may have to spend a bunch of money on sanding, stripping, and prepping for the repair.