JEM Watercraft technique questions.
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Oldsparkey
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This is the deck of the Freedom , no spacers.
Up close look , remember the holes for the copper wire are 1/16th inch , to give you a scale on the size of the seam. If I would of sanded it at an angle so they would of fit flush , they would of been closer.
The completed deck......
It is nothing more then building it the way you like to , spacers work really well. They allow the builder a great tolerance or leeway on the fit then the way I do it.
I have better luck without them.
Chuck.
Up close look , remember the holes for the copper wire are 1/16th inch , to give you a scale on the size of the seam. If I would of sanded it at an angle so they would of fit flush , they would of been closer.
The completed deck......
It is nothing more then building it the way you like to , spacers work really well. They allow the builder a great tolerance or leeway on the fit then the way I do it.
I have better luck without them.
Chuck.
Remember:
Amateurs built the Ark...... Professionals built the Titanic
Visit some fine paddlers at The Southern Paddler
Amateurs built the Ark...... Professionals built the Titanic
Visit some fine paddlers at The Southern Paddler
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FlaMike
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:30 pm
- Type of boat I like: <-- Please read instructions to the left and delete this text. Then, tell us what type boat you like! :-)
- Location: Spring Hill, FL
Thanks for those pics, Chuck!
I see exactly what you mean. I'll wait and see if the spacers will be needed, but if I'm careful enough drawing up and cutting out the panels, maybe I won't need them either. We'll see!
I've read a number of your post on the other Forum, but can't recall what wood you used for your Freedom. Is that a marine ply, or is it a version of luan? Just asking because it really looks GOOD!
Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
I see exactly what you mean. I'll wait and see if the spacers will be needed, but if I'm careful enough drawing up and cutting out the panels, maybe I won't need them either. We'll see!
I've read a number of your post on the other Forum, but can't recall what wood you used for your Freedom. Is that a marine ply, or is it a version of luan? Just asking because it really looks GOOD!
Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
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Oldsparkey
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- Type of boat I like: Wood boats .
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I have a place that gets me the good Luann because they know I am making a boat , it is the cheep stuff $9.95 a sheet but looks good. I pull out the sheets with some character to them.
When making a boat , the 1st time I like to use the not so costly wood and in this case it was a good deal since I buggered up the measurements on one sheet , no big deal $10.00 down the drain but later I used it for the strips around the cockpit to make the coming.
Guess I did something right , I have paddled it on several rivers around here and down in the Glades and out into the Gulf of Mexico it still looks like new. All of them were camping trips , solo or with someone.
Remember ... measure and mark then recheck it three times , then cut only one time. In my case that one sheet I should of measured 4 times.
Heck that is nothing more then making a wood boat in the summer with sweat puddling in your glasses everytime you look down.
I could of used spacers and had it made in the shade but it was only one sheet so what the heck......... Besides Matt wanted pictures of the build so why change building methods in mid stream.
I will get some feed back on this ... But think about it.........
I am a boat builder with the idea of making a sandwich , the filling is just that , the filling or what you want to see or snack on.
The filing ( wood) is what determines the shape of the boat and in our case the looks of the craft and the fiberglass (Bread) is what gives it the body or strength.
Epoxyed plywood will increase up to 4 times in strength , depending on the saturation of it but it is the fiberglass that offers all of the protection and the additional strength to a wood boat.
Look at it this way , epoxy saturate the wood , what are you doing ? You are making wood into a epoxy saturated item. Now you add the glass , what are you doing , you are epoxy saturating the glass , the same thing you did to the wood.
What do you end up with , an epoxy saturated wood boat with an epoxy saturated fiberglass skin over it or an all epoxy boat that looks like wood.
A sandwich where all you can see is the filling in it.
Chuck.
PS. I'm a simple person who looks at life in a simple way , no reason to make things confusing when they don't need to be.
I pull out the sheets with some character to them.When making a boat , the 1st time I like to use the not so costly wood and in this case it was a good deal since I buggered up the measurements on one sheet , no big deal $10.00 down the drain but later I used it for the strips around the cockpit to make the coming.
Guess I did something right , I have paddled it on several rivers around here and down in the Glades and out into the Gulf of Mexico it still looks like new. All of them were camping trips , solo or with someone.
Remember ... measure and mark then recheck it three times , then cut only one time. In my case that one sheet I should of measured 4 times.
Heck that is nothing more then making a wood boat in the summer with sweat puddling in your glasses everytime you look down. I could of used spacers and had it made in the shade but it was only one sheet so what the heck......... Besides Matt wanted pictures of the build so why change building methods in mid stream.
I will get some feed back on this ... But think about it.........
I am a boat builder with the idea of making a sandwich , the filling is just that , the filling or what you want to see or snack on.
The filing ( wood) is what determines the shape of the boat and in our case the looks of the craft and the fiberglass (Bread) is what gives it the body or strength.
Epoxyed plywood will increase up to 4 times in strength , depending on the saturation of it but it is the fiberglass that offers all of the protection and the additional strength to a wood boat.
Look at it this way , epoxy saturate the wood , what are you doing ? You are making wood into a epoxy saturated item. Now you add the glass , what are you doing , you are epoxy saturating the glass , the same thing you did to the wood.
What do you end up with , an epoxy saturated wood boat with an epoxy saturated fiberglass skin over it or an all epoxy boat that looks like wood.
A sandwich where all you can see is the filling in it.
Chuck.
PS. I'm a simple person who looks at life in a simple way , no reason to make things confusing when they don't need to be.
Last edited by Oldsparkey on Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Remember:
Amateurs built the Ark...... Professionals built the Titanic
Visit some fine paddlers at The Southern Paddler
Amateurs built the Ark...... Professionals built the Titanic
Visit some fine paddlers at The Southern Paddler
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FlaMike
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:30 pm
- Type of boat I like: <-- Please read instructions to the left and delete this text. Then, tell us what type boat you like! :-)
- Location: Spring Hill, FL
Right now, I kind of predisposed towards using 4mm marine (the Okoume stuff, I guess,) if that's what Matt puts in the BOM (Bill of Materials.) If while looking for that, I happen to see the Luan or, Meranti I think they call it now, and if they have it in that same thickness, I could use it instead, if it looks that much better and the price is right.
Other than that, I'd rather not "stray off the reservation" when it comes to building materials. Since I doubt this build will be any heavier than my Pirogue (80 lbs or so,) I've no call to sacrifice any strength for a weight reduction. And I wouldn't want to loose any strength just for looks, either.
As much as I hate to do it, I'll probably be taking a road trip Monday. I'll make some phone calls first, then if I find something, drive on out there to get a look at what they've got. But like I said, I doubt I'll pick any up until I see the BOM.
Building that Pirogue was a lot of fun! And for what I wanted, it serves it's purpose very well. My next build will be taken quite a bit more "seriously," but I'll still have fun doing it.
Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
Other than that, I'd rather not "stray off the reservation" when it comes to building materials. Since I doubt this build will be any heavier than my Pirogue (80 lbs or so,) I've no call to sacrifice any strength for a weight reduction. And I wouldn't want to loose any strength just for looks, either.
As much as I hate to do it, I'll probably be taking a road trip Monday. I'll make some phone calls first, then if I find something, drive on out there to get a look at what they've got. But like I said, I doubt I'll pick any up until I see the BOM.
Building that Pirogue was a lot of fun! And for what I wanted, it serves it's purpose very well. My next build will be taken quite a bit more "seriously," but I'll still have fun doing it.
Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
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Oldsparkey
- Design Reviewer
- Posts: 1272
- Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 11:08 am
- Type of boat I like: Wood boats .
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- Contact:
It is your boat , build it the way you want and preferably the way the designer has it.
All I have done is to show the other side of the coin and my thoughts , who some folks do not agree with me but will make an interesting post on my web site , I have taken to many liberties on Matt's and for that I apologize to Matt.
Chuck.
All I have done is to show the other side of the coin and my thoughts , who some folks do not agree with me but will make an interesting post on my web site , I have taken to many liberties on Matt's and for that I apologize to Matt.
Chuck.
Remember:
Amateurs built the Ark...... Professionals built the Titanic
Visit some fine paddlers at The Southern Paddler
Amateurs built the Ark...... Professionals built the Titanic
Visit some fine paddlers at The Southern Paddler
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Kayak Jack
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- Location: South-central Michigan
(This pains me, but) I agree with Chuck. (It didn't hurt all that bad, because I agree only up to a point.)
I've never used the spacers, so I don't know the advantages of them. Matt says there are some, and I believe him. I worked my way around the disadvantages while not knowing very much about what I was doing. Their use may have saved me some difficulties? May also have caused me extra work?
I always use Okoume mahogany BS1088 plywood. I like to use the very best materials, and am not at all interested in saving a few dollars on my boats. After all, I'm a sloppy craftsman and must use the best materials to save myself. Also, I don't like to try to economize on a hull in which I go out into deep water. Kinda like being a steeple jack, and getting the cheapest safety belt you can find. Just my preferences. You have to exercise your own priorities for yourself. (It's called free choice.)
Here's a simple jig you can make for spacing the holes to be drilled for wires. Using a piece of scrap 1/8" plywood (nearly any piece of luan would qualify). Cut it 7" long and 1" wide. Carefully draw three lines on it, length ways. One straight up the middle, 1/2" from both, long sides. The other two will be 1/4" in from the respective long edges, running parallel to the centerline.
On the centerline, measure in 1/2" in from each end & put a dot. Drill a small hole in each dot.
You now can lay two pieces of matching panel together, making certain that they are the mating joints where these two are supposed to join. Clamp them to hold them in steady position and eliminate any slipping. Start in the center of the long, joined panel, and drill the first hole 1/4" in from the mating edge. With the drill bit still in, but no longer turning, rotate the jig 180 degrees & line up the lines so the next hole will be 6" away from the first, and 1/4" in from the edges. Drill, rotate, drill, rotate, repeat as often as necessary, working from the center out towards each end.
I've built four boats using the same jig; they don't wear out.
I've never used the spacers, so I don't know the advantages of them. Matt says there are some, and I believe him. I worked my way around the disadvantages while not knowing very much about what I was doing. Their use may have saved me some difficulties? May also have caused me extra work?
I always use Okoume mahogany BS1088 plywood. I like to use the very best materials, and am not at all interested in saving a few dollars on my boats. After all, I'm a sloppy craftsman and must use the best materials to save myself. Also, I don't like to try to economize on a hull in which I go out into deep water. Kinda like being a steeple jack, and getting the cheapest safety belt you can find. Just my preferences. You have to exercise your own priorities for yourself. (It's called free choice.)
Here's a simple jig you can make for spacing the holes to be drilled for wires. Using a piece of scrap 1/8" plywood (nearly any piece of luan would qualify). Cut it 7" long and 1" wide. Carefully draw three lines on it, length ways. One straight up the middle, 1/2" from both, long sides. The other two will be 1/4" in from the respective long edges, running parallel to the centerline.
On the centerline, measure in 1/2" in from each end & put a dot. Drill a small hole in each dot.
You now can lay two pieces of matching panel together, making certain that they are the mating joints where these two are supposed to join. Clamp them to hold them in steady position and eliminate any slipping. Start in the center of the long, joined panel, and drill the first hole 1/4" in from the mating edge. With the drill bit still in, but no longer turning, rotate the jig 180 degrees & line up the lines so the next hole will be 6" away from the first, and 1/4" in from the edges. Drill, rotate, drill, rotate, repeat as often as necessary, working from the center out towards each end.
I've built four boats using the same jig; they don't wear out.
Kayak Jack
Doing what you like is FREEDOM
Liking what you do is HAPPINESS
I spent most of my money on whiskey and women - and I'm afraid I just wasted the rest.
Doing what you like is FREEDOM
Liking what you do is HAPPINESS
I spent most of my money on whiskey and women - and I'm afraid I just wasted the rest.
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FlaMike
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:30 pm
- Type of boat I like: <-- Please read instructions to the left and delete this text. Then, tell us what type boat you like! :-)
- Location: Spring Hill, FL
Just got the word from my CFO (read: wife.)
I can place my epoxy and cloth order with Raka on Monday, and pick up the plywood when I know exactly what I'll need (and then FIND it.)
For a few, brief moments, I'll actually be holding the credit card in my own two hands!
Of course, any longer than that would probably be a very bad idea!
( i know me.)
She thinks it a bit odd that I'm getting geared up to build a boat that there isn't plans for yet, but if she spent time on this Forum and Old Sparkey's, it would sound perfectly normal. (In a relative sort of way, I mean.)
Chuck,
To date, I've only built one boat. After this next one, I'll probably be more inclined to "experiment" a little more. In fact, I'm sure I will.
Jack,
Thanks for the explanation of the stitch hole jig. I intend to put that to good use!
Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
I can place my epoxy and cloth order with Raka on Monday, and pick up the plywood when I know exactly what I'll need (and then FIND it.)
For a few, brief moments, I'll actually be holding the credit card in my own two hands!
Of course, any longer than that would probably be a very bad idea!
( i know me.)She thinks it a bit odd that I'm getting geared up to build a boat that there isn't plans for yet, but if she spent time on this Forum and Old Sparkey's, it would sound perfectly normal.
(In a relative sort of way, I mean.)Chuck,
To date, I've only built one boat. After this next one, I'll probably be more inclined to "experiment" a little more. In fact, I'm sure I will.
Jack,
Thanks for the explanation of the stitch hole jig. I intend to put that to good use!
Mike S.
Spring Hill, FL
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hairymick
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Mike,
if you can afford it,
i would recommend that you get one extra sheet of ply - just in case. particularly so, since you have to go out of your way to get it.
If you don't need it - bargain. You allready have the starting point for your next build.
I have to get my ply freighted in from Brisbane - our capitol city and as such, I have to order it sight unseen and simply trust the seller to provide quality stuff. To this end, i have been ordering it ten sheets at a time. My latest order was for 30 because he offered me a very good price.
AUD$26.00 per sheet for 4mm Gabboon marine ply BS1088 rating and A finish front and back. This stuff can retail for around 100 bucks a sheet. gotta be happy with that!!!
if you can afford it,
i would recommend that you get one extra sheet of ply - just in case. particularly so, since you have to go out of your way to get it.
If you don't need it - bargain. You allready have the starting point for your next build.
I have to get my ply freighted in from Brisbane - our capitol city and as such, I have to order it sight unseen and simply trust the seller to provide quality stuff. To this end, i have been ordering it ten sheets at a time. My latest order was for 30 because he offered me a very good price.
AUD$26.00 per sheet for 4mm Gabboon marine ply BS1088 rating and A finish front and back. This stuff can retail for around 100 bucks a sheet. gotta be happy with that!!!Regards,
Mick
JEMWATERCRAFT Swampgirl; Wadefish;Touring Pirogue;South Wind; P5 ;
Laker X 2, Sasquatch 16.5 T-V 15 Okwata 15:
Cobia 15 (under construction)
Mick
JEMWATERCRAFT Swampgirl; Wadefish;Touring Pirogue;South Wind; P5 ;
Laker X 2, Sasquatch 16.5 T-V 15 Okwata 15:
Cobia 15 (under construction)