Freedom question

tx river rat · Post by **tx river rat** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:14 am

Matt
Do you think it would improve performance on the Freedom if you put a v in the flat portion of the hull simular to the Laker.
Ron

Post by **jem** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:20 am

You'd get some better tracking. Maybe a hair more speed. Not sure if it would be enough to notice the speed increase.

What you will do is add some displacement. So it will float just a bit higher depending on how deep the V is. That could lead to a little less stability since your center of gravity is raised.

tx river rat · Post by **tx river rat** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:43 am

Thanks for speedy reply
The Freedom tracks very well and if there is very little difference in the speed
Stability is great on the Freedom
Better just leave a good design alone
Thanks Matt
Ron

Post by **jem** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:02 pm

I received an e-mail question regarding this post. It said:

Matt:
Just looked at your answer to the posting by Texas River Rat on the change to a v bottom on the freedom. I asked you the same question about a month ago on the touring pirogue - T and you gave the same
answer, probably wouldn't increase speed to where you could notice it and would effect the stability. So why change a good design? Why would you put a v bottom on the laker and not a flat one? Thanks.

James

That's an excellent question. Here's my response:

Well there's a big different between puttign one on and designing for it from the beginning. As a modification, it will have some effect. Designing for it to begin with provides better results.

Tracking is a big part of it. Freedom has other aspects to the hull shape to help with it's tracking. It's skinnied at both ends intentionally for this. Laker is a shorter hull and much less waterline length and it's hull fullness on the ends is more like a pirogue shape. It needs a little help tracking.

Also, a v-bottom will be stiffer than a wide-spanning single flat panel.

Oldsparkey · Post by **Oldsparkey** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:59 pm

I hate to butt in here ....... BUT.

The Freedom is a great boat and can be used for everything from a week long tripper to a day paddler , From swamps to out in the Gulf of Mexico or any river and lake between the two.

It is a ideal shallow water kayak but will handle the wakes from the Everglades tour boats and those wakes are in the 4 foot height with several in succession. Just bob over them like a cork , even when you are loaded down with a weeks camping gear.

It will paddle against the tide and wind like any true kayak but offer the stability of a much better boat. I for one say to leave it just like it is and the one modification Matt made to it will offer a lot more paddling comfort. Nothing poking you in the back as you paddle.

I guess the poke in the back is what keep me awake while paddling it , something to remind me I was in a boat and stopped me from day dreaming as I paddled along.

Chuck.

jheger · Post by **jheger** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:13 pm

Matt:
I am not sure I understand the difference in what designing for it to begin with as opposed to as a modification mean. You have to understand that both me and tx river rat are both from TEXAS and this may account for slowness to getting things through our thick skull. No harm intended Tx River Rat.

Post by **jem** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:42 pm

I'm saying it's easier to take the entire design into consideration with various features on the drawing board than to trying and fit them in as an after thought.

hairymick · Post by **hairymick** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:47 pm

I too, am very interested in the freedom and I have spoken with Matt about a V bottom version..

I really like the lines of his updated model and the only thing that has me hesitating is the flat bottom.

Chuck, I don't doubt you when you say it is a great boat mate. In fact, I am certain it is.

. I just prefer the V bottom is all. I reckon I will be building one next year.

Oldsparkey · Post by **Oldsparkey** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:03 pm

hairymick wrote:
Chuck, I don't doubt you when you say it is a great boat mate. In fact, I am certain it is. . I just prefer the V bottom is all. I reckon I will be building one next year.

OK , I don't need a brick wall to fall on me or to paddle over some water falls , be swamped by a cruise liner or snapped in half by a friendly gator , Nor me the boat , Ya nut's.

I will shut up and just crawl back into my corner of that dark , dingy , boat building cave I call home and do things my way , since they work for me. Especially since I hold with the thought .. If it ain't broken they why fix it.

Anyone can take a Ford and make it an BMW but why would they want to do it ?????? Just get the BMW to start with and forget the Ford that will take you anywhere , even into places the BMW will not go or even think about going.

I have mine and that is all I need for relaxation , paddling fun . camping on the water , or just getting away. Ya all do what ya want and with some luck I will see you on a river somewhere.

A proven design is always better in the long run , change it if you must but keep the original one for us pore folks that knows no better but have more fun. What do you have to lose by staying with the original thought.... a little space on the computer

Chuck.
PS. Something can be improved and it usually works out for the better , sometimes it just is not worth it since you lost the whole idea of the original thought.

hairymick · Post by **hairymick** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:36 am

OK , I don't need a brick wall to fall on me or to paddle over some water falls , be swamped by a cruise liner or snapped in half by a friendly gator , Nor me the boat , Ya nut's.

I will shut up and just crawl back into my corner of that dark , dingy , boat building cave I call home and do things my way , since they work for me. Especially since I hold with the thought .. If it ain't broken they why fix it.

Anyone can take a Ford and make it an BMW but why would they want to do it ?????? Just get the BMW to start with and forget the Ford that will take you anywhere , even into places the BMW will not go or even think about going.

I have mine and that is all I need for relaxation , paddling fun . camping on the water , or just getting away. Ya all do what ya want and with some luck I will see you on a river somewhere.

A proven design is always better in the long run , change it if you must but keep the original one for us pore folks that knows no better but have more fun. What do you have to lose by staying with the original thought.... a little space on the computer

Chuck.
PS. Something can be improved and it usually works out for the better , sometimes it just is not worth it since you lost the whole idea of the original thought

Chuck mate, I think you mis-undersand me.

I am certain that the Freedom is a great boat, just as she is. What I was trying to say is that I would prefer that deck set up on a hull very similar in size and proportion to the lovely Freedom but with the bottom panels similar to the Okwater - A more traditional bottomed boat. If that requires a whole new boat to be designed and Matt is happy to do it, then so be it.

If he is too busy to do that, then that is also fine, I will build the Fredom just as she is.

I don't think anybody was rideculing your boat or your ideas mate. Least of all me. You know your waters and what you expect from a good boat in them. I respect your knowledge. It is just that for me here, generally I need to travel over some fairly open water to get to the skinny stuff and I believe that the sharp entries and shallow V of a more traditionally bottomed kayak would suit my needs better.