Sorry for the extreme newbie questions, but this is my first boat build (touring pirogue) and really, one of my first woodworking projects of any kind! I've read the board here pretty extensively to try to figure things out for myself, but I have a few lingering questions. My apologies if there is actually a thread referencing something that I ask below.
1. My hull side panels...Should I fiberglass splice or butt block? I'm thinking butt blocking seems sturdier, but weighs more. Which is the better choice for my experience level?
2. If i butt block, what type of wood should I use here? Same plywood as the hull?
3. Same with the "frames"...those are throwaway, i know, but is the same plywood used here? (So in essence, I need 3 sheets of wood instead of 2?)
4. Finally, I bought a super cheap piece of plywood, just to make sure I knew my way around my new jigsaw...I laid out my panels per the instructions and started cutting...they looked awful! Ha. It's hard to jigsaw in a straight line! My solution when I do this "for real" is going to be to saw just above the line, and sand/plane down to where it should be...any other tips on this? I also thought I might make one of those "zero clearance" molds for the underside of the saw. On the crappy plywood that I was practicing on, I had a lot of flaking.
Thanks in advance for any responses!
Chris
A few newbie questions
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Re: A few newbie questions
I'd just glass the joints,when glassed on both sides they will be fine. The build frames that you talking about are they the three build panels used to stitch your hull panels to? If were talking about the same thing you can use cheaper ply to build with but if your planning on building decks and bulkheads your what to use the good ply. On the cutting with a jig saw it's best to use a metal cutting blade with the fine teeth so that you don't get all that tear out with a wood blade and yes some here do cut outside the lines and sand down to the lines. Please don't be afraid to ask any question's
Mike
Mike
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Re: A few newbie questions
The following replies are my opinion only. Some may know of better ways to do things, but this is what has worked for me.ChrisTX wrote:Sorry for the extreme newbie questions, but this is my first boat build (touring pirogue) and really, one of my first woodworking projects of any kind! I've read the board here pretty extensively to try to figure things out for myself, but I have a few lingering questions. My apologies if there is actually a thread referencing something that I ask below.
1. My hull side panels...Should I fiberglass splice or butt block? I'm thinking butt blocking seems sturdier, but weighs more. Which is the better choice for my experience level?
2. If i butt block, what type of wood should I use here? Same plywood as the hull?
3. Same with the "frames"...those are throwaway, i know, but is the same plywood used here? (So in essence, I need 3 sheets of wood instead of 2?)
4. Finally, I bought a super cheap piece of plywood, just to make sure I knew my way around my new jigsaw...I laid out my panels per the instructions and started cutting...they looked awful! Ha. It's hard to jigsaw in a straight line! My solution when I do this "for real" is going to be to saw just above the line, and sand/plane down to where it should be...any other tips on this? I also thought I might make one of those "zero clearance" molds for the underside of the saw. On the crappy plywood that I was practicing on, I had a lot of flaking.
Thanks in advance for any responses!
Chris
1. I use fiberglass always. The butt block seems like more work, but I may be wrong. It seems like it would me more difficult to fiberglass the inside of the boat with the butt blocks in place.
2. If you do choose to butt block, I would use the same plywood so it would match better.
3. Since the frames are throw aways, you could use other wood if you had some. My current build is an Okwata and I used OSB as one of my frames since I ran out of plywood. You just have to be sure to put the frames on the midship side of the line if you use a thick piece so it doesn't stick out over the edge of the plywood panels.
4. Good idea on cutting away from the line and planing it. I do something similar, but I use my disk sander table to sand to the line. I found that to keep the plywood from chipping up and damaging the veneer of the wood when cutting, it helped to score the drawn line through the outer layer of plywood with a carpet knife. Its an extra step, but it works. Another method i found that works, if you have a circular saw, is to cut back words so the blade spins down ward into the cut. It chips out the bottom, but you can still see the drawn line. It is a little more dangerous though since, if you go to fast, the saw could take off and get away from you.
Good luck and enjoy the build. I just got back from taking my Touring pirogue out for a quick river trip. I enjoyed every paddle stroke.
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Re: A few newbie questions
G’day Chris and welcome.
Here’s my 2 cents worth.
1/ My preference is to butt block.
With my first build, I just couldn’t get my head around how two panels could be joined so securely end to end (or more accurately, lacked confidence that I’d do it right) and felt that the butt block method gave me peace of mind.
Now, having worked with the materials a bit, I accept that splice joins will work perfectly well but I’m a creature of habit and continue to butt block anyway.
The additional weight is very negligible, I’ve found.
Craig mentioned butt blocking might make fiber glassing the inside more difficult….. Yes… it does make it a bit fiddlier.
One tip that helps is to make sure you sand down the edges of you block to as fine an edge, with as long a taper to the edge, as you can get. Do this before you glue them in place. It helps the fiberglass lay down smoother over the block
2/ Yes. Just cut them out from off cuts from the panels.
3/ I’ve used a mixture. Marine ply for most and a few have been ordinary (but good quality) exterior grade ply when I’ve run out of the marine ply.
4/ I agree with Mike about using a fine tooth metal cutting jigsaw blade. I’ve always used them and had no problems…. One tip….. Take your time and don’t try to rush the saw through. Just let it do its job and move it forward with the cut slowly.
I’ve always cut about an 1/8 to a 1/4 of an inch outside the line and planed or sanded down to the line…..It gives you a nice margin for error that way.
Having said that, I still sometimes manage to end up with slightly wavy lines!
Good luck with the build.
Here’s my 2 cents worth.
1/ My preference is to butt block.
With my first build, I just couldn’t get my head around how two panels could be joined so securely end to end (or more accurately, lacked confidence that I’d do it right) and felt that the butt block method gave me peace of mind.
Now, having worked with the materials a bit, I accept that splice joins will work perfectly well but I’m a creature of habit and continue to butt block anyway.
The additional weight is very negligible, I’ve found.
Craig mentioned butt blocking might make fiber glassing the inside more difficult….. Yes… it does make it a bit fiddlier.
One tip that helps is to make sure you sand down the edges of you block to as fine an edge, with as long a taper to the edge, as you can get. Do this before you glue them in place. It helps the fiberglass lay down smoother over the block
2/ Yes. Just cut them out from off cuts from the panels.
3/ I’ve used a mixture. Marine ply for most and a few have been ordinary (but good quality) exterior grade ply when I’ve run out of the marine ply.
4/ I agree with Mike about using a fine tooth metal cutting jigsaw blade. I’ve always used them and had no problems…. One tip….. Take your time and don’t try to rush the saw through. Just let it do its job and move it forward with the cut slowly.
I’ve always cut about an 1/8 to a 1/4 of an inch outside the line and planed or sanded down to the line…..It gives you a nice margin for error that way.
Having said that, I still sometimes manage to end up with slightly wavy lines!
Good luck with the build.
John.
1 Cape Fear Sit In....a couple more planned
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"People who don't make mistakes don't make anything"
1 Cape Fear Sit In....a couple more planned
2 Laker 14's
1 Paddle board
"People who don't make mistakes don't make anything"
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Re: A few newbie questions
Firstly, The backwards circular saw thing Please DO NOT do it. Being new to any kind of woodworking it could well prove to be your first and last effort.
1. I didn't use butt blocks but could see how they could be slightly stonger and easier to facilitate a flat joint. However if you do make an error, it is easier to clean off plain glass and re do.
2, Yep same wood the rest of the build would be for buttblocks.
3, Any crappy bit of wood will do for your panels such as the wood you described to practice on.
4, Agree its best to score the line slowly and carefully with a carpet knife, particularly those lines you will be cutting across the grain. You can score the correct lines and still cut outside the lines and tidy up afterwards; any splintering should only go as far as the knife score mark.
Agree with metal cutting blade in a jigsaw, high speed if your jigsaw gives you the option.
5, Re-read the first sentence.
Cheers John,
1. I didn't use butt blocks but could see how they could be slightly stonger and easier to facilitate a flat joint. However if you do make an error, it is easier to clean off plain glass and re do.
2, Yep same wood the rest of the build would be for buttblocks.
3, Any crappy bit of wood will do for your panels such as the wood you described to practice on.
4, Agree its best to score the line slowly and carefully with a carpet knife, particularly those lines you will be cutting across the grain. You can score the correct lines and still cut outside the lines and tidy up afterwards; any splintering should only go as far as the knife score mark.
Agree with metal cutting blade in a jigsaw, high speed if your jigsaw gives you the option.
5, Re-read the first sentence.
Cheers John,
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Re: A few newbie questions
I use glass over the joints , both sides. Then when the boat is glassed you have a double layer of glass over the joint and all of my boats have held up without any problems.
If you use butt blocks make sure you angle the sides of the bottom ones to match the angle of the ones on the sides or you will be doing a lot of trimming to make them match up when attaching the side boards.
As far as sawing out the panels , a hand saw ( cuts on the pull stroke) is what I use. Takes more time but I can cut right on the line without any problems.
Chuck.
If you use butt blocks make sure you angle the sides of the bottom ones to match the angle of the ones on the sides or you will be doing a lot of trimming to make them match up when attaching the side boards.
As far as sawing out the panels , a hand saw ( cuts on the pull stroke) is what I use. Takes more time but I can cut right on the line without any problems.
Chuck.
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Amateurs built the Ark...... Professionals built the Titanic
Visit some fine paddlers at The Southern Paddler
Re: A few newbie questions
Thanks for the responses!
A couple more basics:
Wood...how thick should it be? I've read on here people using between 3mm and 5.2mm. Which is best for a first timer?
Also, regarding wood: the Okoume (grade 1088) is $88 and change here in Austin. I was considering Aquatech Mahogany (grade 6566)...1/4 inch sheets for $36.
Any suggestions?
Thanks again fellas
Chris
A couple more basics:
Wood...how thick should it be? I've read on here people using between 3mm and 5.2mm. Which is best for a first timer?
Also, regarding wood: the Okoume (grade 1088) is $88 and change here in Austin. I was considering Aquatech Mahogany (grade 6566)...1/4 inch sheets for $36.
Any suggestions?
Thanks again fellas
Chris
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Re: A few newbie questions
In the absence of budget considerations, 4mm bs1088 marine grade okoume is the best choice.
But we live in reality so money is a factor. The 1/4" Aquatech is going to be heavier but it should be decent quality stuff. Should have no issue building the Touring Pirogue with it.
But we live in reality so money is a factor. The 1/4" Aquatech is going to be heavier but it should be decent quality stuff. Should have no issue building the Touring Pirogue with it.
-Matt. Designer.
Re: A few newbie questions
I used 10.00 a sheet laun or however you spell it, and have no complaints.
one thing though, be careful with sanders if your going for a natural finish. If your going to paint it, full steam ahead
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2843
kevin
one thing though, be careful with sanders if your going for a natural finish. If your going to paint it, full steam ahead
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2843
kevin