Seat positions and Graphite for Trapper

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redbaron
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Seat positions and Graphite for Trapper

Post by redbaron » Tue May 13, 2014 9:50 am

Just about done with my Trapper 15-35, and I have 2 questions.

1. How far, from center should I place the seats? I'm about 205 lbs (but I promise I will work on reducing that next year!) and the person in the bow will probably be between 120 to 150 (depending on big my son gets in the next few years). I'm eyeballing 30" and 35" from center to the edge of the seats, but I know seat placement is more than looks.

2. I know in the thread on graphite, it says to let it cure for 2 weeks. Does that mean that I need to wait that long to take her out? Or can we go paddle for a few hours on Saturday if I put the last coat on Friday morning?

Thanks!

Chris
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Chris
Trapper 15-35
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Oldsparkey
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Re: Seat positions and Graphite for Trapper

Post by Oldsparkey » Tue May 13, 2014 2:27 pm

Not sure about the seat placement , Matt is the one for that question.

I'm the guy that started the epoxy and graphite mix on the bottom of a canoe or pirogue. Till then it was only done on the large , sea going , racing sailboats. No one else , that I know of , did it on small boats.

The Graphite mix needs to cure I would give it a week at the earliest and a full 30 days to completely cure.

If you are in a hurry to use the canoe then use it without the graphite mix and be a little careful with it.
YEP , I KNOW , But I will get it scratched up ......... So you use the canoe and then mask ( tape ) off and lightly sand the bottom before you add the graphite mix , which you will have to do anyway.

Either way if you use it or if you don't you still will have to lightly sand the bottom and wipe it down ( With a NEW CLEAN CLOTH ) before applying the graphite and epoxy to get rid of any epoxy blush , oil , or contaminates on the bottom. I use a little acetone on my cloth others use different liquids , Alcohol being one.

Chuck.
Remember:
Amateurs built the Ark...... Professionals built the Titanic
Visit some fine paddlers at The Southern Paddler

redbaron
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Re: Seat positions and Graphite for Trapper

Post by redbaron » Tue May 13, 2014 3:07 pm

Ok, sounds like the graphite, when applied, will not only protect the bottom, but cover up any (if any) evidence of our trip down the Catawba river this weekend. I can live with that.

Thanks for the help!
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Chris
Trapper 15-35
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LesForgue
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Re: Seat positions and Graphite for Trapper

Post by LesForgue » Tue May 13, 2014 5:46 pm

I read online about a dude who said he wished he had added the graphite earlier on, when he was filling the f.g. weave on the bottom, instead of whole separate layers of epoxy-graphite covering the filled fiberglass. He said it would have saved some weight. But I never heard of anyone actually doing it that way. Seems to me like it would be a messy challenge to end up with the graphite just only where you want it, with a fine line on the edges like you get with masking off the separate layers piled on top of the finished fiberglass.

Chuck, since you have built a bodaciously huge fleet of canoes, kayaks, etc, what is your opinion of adding the graphite to the fill the weave tasks (on the bottom), instead of its own separate layers???
Thanks

Mark J
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Re: Seat positions and Graphite for Trapper

Post by Mark J » Tue May 13, 2014 8:24 pm

I've done it both ways. I'll load my graphite epoxy with silica pretty heavy the first couple of coats. As far as toughness, it's hard to beat a good loading of silica.

You have to fill the weave with something whether it's straight epoxy, balloons, wood flour, etc. anyway.
As far as having a raised line, you might but you are going to sand the hull entirely including the graphite before you get to the finish coating of both the hull and the bottom. For this reason graphite is not the last thing I do in a build. After I glass the exterior of the hull, my next step is finishing the bottom whatever that might be.

As far as a mess. Tape and plastic. What you don't want jet black epoxy on, cover.

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Oldsparkey
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Re: Seat positions and Graphite for Trapper

Post by Oldsparkey » Tue May 13, 2014 9:15 pm

LesForgue wrote: Chuck, since you have built a bodaciously huge fleet of canoes, kayaks, etc, what is your opinion of adding the graphite to the fill the weave tasks (on the bottom), instead of its own separate layers???
Thanks
To be honest I think it would be a mess with a capital Mess. Graphite gets all over everything and I like to keep it as the last step.
I might look at it wrong , I have been know to do that at times , OK All the time. :roll:

I use 3 oz glass on my boats with an epoxy saturation coat on the wood before glassing then normally three applications of epoxy to fill the weave and smooth things out. To add a little more protection I do three light coats of the epoxy and graphite mix.
The 1st mix you can see the wood threw it
The 2nd mix the wood starts to disappear.
the 3rd coat the bottom is solid black.
Those three coats do add some weight but I think it is weight well deserved since they and the graphite take the abuse before the glass and it's three coats of glass come into contact with anything that might hurt the bottom of the boat. Plus as an ace in the hole the wood was epoxy saturated before being glassed so that hardens the wood and helps to protect it even more.

As far as the boats weight a lot , with 1/8th inch wood and the above method my boats are 30 or 32 pounds and that is a full sized boat , 16 foot , 32 pound pirogue and a 14 foot 30 pound canoe, the rest are up to 17 1/2 feet and 40 pounds.
The seat in the pirogue weighs 2 pounds , the same 2 pound seat is in the canoe.

That's the beauty of building your own boat , you can do it your way and the more , different , ways we do them the more choices all of us have to chose from or even create our own system.
There is no wrong way as long as the boat floats. :wink:

Chuck.
Remember:
Amateurs built the Ark...... Professionals built the Titanic
Visit some fine paddlers at The Southern Paddler

redbaron
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Re: Seat positions and Graphite for Trapper

Post by redbaron » Wed May 14, 2014 2:09 pm

Interesting thought! but the canoe is almost finished, just doing some final touches ( sanding, seats and tie downs) before we take it out. On Saturday.
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Chris
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LesForgue
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Re: Seat positions and Graphite for Trapper

Post by LesForgue » Thu May 15, 2014 10:58 am

redbaron wrote:Interesting thought! but the canoe is almost finished, just doing some final touches ( sanding, seats and tie downs) before we take it out. On Saturday.
Congrats on meeting your on the water date of May 17.

Nice work, red baron.

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Re: Seat positions and Graphite for Trapper

Post by jem » Thu May 15, 2014 8:44 pm

seats any distance from center so long as they are close to equal distance for proper balance.
-Matt. Designer.

redbaron
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Re: Seat positions and Graphite for Trapper

Post by redbaron » Mon May 04, 2015 8:33 pm

So ... I never did get around to applying that graphite (was talked out of it actually, it really doesn't look as good as varnished wood), but now I have some repairing to do.

Hit a few rocks this weekend, and at least one of them scraped down to where I can see fiberglass. I had doubled up the fiberglass in this area, and the fifiberglass itself doesn't look to be damaged.

I am guessing that I need to:
1. Wash the entire boat well
2. Let it dry
3. sand the varnish off in those areas and into the epoxy
4. Fill in the scratches with more epoxy.

Is there anything else I need to to do for a thorough repair?

I am also guessing that while I am at it, I will sand the bottom panels down to epoxy and apply my graphite.
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Chris
Trapper 15-35
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