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Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:01 am
Here in US "Lowes" has 3ply 1/4" or 6mm 17$ USD a sheet. Not bad
stuff. No footballs or voids. Quite a bargain. Looky at my piccy's
The grain is a little goofy, but not bad stock.
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:40 pm
Well is good to see nothings changed the subject of ply woods and the cost. When i built my gander river canoe (by the way Matt is still going strong and suprisingly fast ). I used cheep far estern plywood that i sourced from a local merchants my tipis be selective take your time check each sheet before buying. You are looking for laminations of equal thicknes with a minumum of three. As for getting someone else to cut it out take another tip do it yourself. The self satisfaction of having produced one of Matts fine craft can only be understood by those who have built and own one. Tip 3 take a trip down to the hire shop ,hire a good quality jig saw for a weekend and buy some down cut blades . When you mark out on the face side of your ply the spelching will be on the inside leaving a superb finish on the face giving sharp crisp joints. While im on my soapbox I am posibly the only advocator of polyester resins having done extensive tests on both polyester and epoxy, and for medical rater than cost reasons use polyester with tape with what i consider to be a fair result (See for yourself on my builders log )
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:29 pm
Thanks for your post and thoughts here mate.
I don't know enough about poly resins to be in a position to comment on them, but agree completely with your point on ply selection and tooling.
I don't know if it is possible in the US to be able to buy direct from a panel wholesaler, - you know, the people who sell to the retailers who in turn, sell to the public.
If one can buy from the wholesaler - it is well worth considering.
Very good Gaboon/okoume marine ply has become rediculously expensive here now and is no longer a realistic option for a cumpulsive builder like me. (around 100 bucks per sheet) The alternative in marine ply is what the wholesailers are calling Pacific Maple and is furniture quality but is about 2 kgs per sheet heavier (guesstimate) (around 45 bucks per sheet)
Luann 4mm ply with a "B" fnish booth sides - good enough for my purposes with reasonably thick outside veneers is at a similar weight to the Pac Maple is available at around 15 bucks per sheet from the wholesaler. It is not worth my while to drive the 350 mile round trip to individually select the best sheets so with each order I place, I order several more sheets than I need. (Freaight for me is the same if I buy 1 sheet or 20)
I pick the best sheets for the hull panels and cut up the poorer ones for the temp frames and other little bits etc and wind up with very little waste.
I can buy 10 sheets of luann 4mm (sight unseen) and get it shipped to my local area for about the same price as I can buy 3 locally. Usually 7 or 8 of those sheets are good enough for hull panels with a significant proportion of the other sheets also suitable. I mark out the template panel and then place it to avoid footballs etc of the poor sheets.
Many builders will build more than one boat and it is no small thing to allready have the sheets of ply on hand to do so when the craving kicks in.
If you can buy direct from the ply wholesaler, there are some serious savings to be had.
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:50 pm
Every boat I have is built from laun and polyester and i haven't been swimming yet.
Disclaimer This is not recomended bye the boss , Matt or mr Jem
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Like tx river rat ...... all of the boats ( Except three of them ) I have made have been from the inexpensive Luann and like Ron , no swimming for me.
Also for the folks I have given several of them to.
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:42 pm
while I have no doubt you all have fine boats, building with inexpensive ply IS NOT something I recommend to a novice builder.
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:06 am
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:47 pm
[quote="jem"]while I have no doubt you all have fine boats, building with inexpensive ply [b][size=18]IS NOT[/size][/b] something I recommend to a novice builder.[/quote]
I think i may have mislead you Matt, i am in no way endorsing cheep plywood. Just that if looking at alternatives, and be aware of the dangers of thin external venieers. Having discussed this at lenth with suppliers in England we are not that well suplied as you in the USA or the rest of Europe. Im not sure this applies to all manifactures but supplies of top grade ply seems to have been thin on the ground for the last five years. Not to say that Marine ply is not avalable, it is just you may have order in bulk or pay a small fortune.
While im generating subjects for discussion has my fellow builders that use polyester ever used styrene to thin out resin to aid wetting out. I have and found that providing you dont use much aprox 5%. A thinner solution can avoid air pockets in matting.
I also used Gelgoat on the outside using a 1% wax solution mixed to give a smooth finish.
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:04 pm
jem wrote:while I have no doubt you all have fine boats, building with inexpensive ply IS NOT something I recommend to a novice builder.
The novice builder ( 1st timer) should always follow the guide lines by the designer of the boat. There is no reason to not do so , it is the smart way to build a boat and to understand the principal of the process. Providing they want a great boat for there use.
After then a few of us like to do some experimentation and try different things ( Me for One ) and see what can be accomplished. That action is ours and ours alone and does not fall back on the designer of the craft we are making , it falls on us and us alone for success or failure.
After all it is the one ( person)
that is willing to try new things that deviate from the norm that finds out if there idea works or is a failure. If it works then others (Including the designer
) have the privilege of taking that information and proceeding with it or forgetting it.
To recap my thoughts ... The novice needs to do things as stated in the instructions for making the boat , personal modifications for there pleasure are understood but not in the construction of the principle ( safety ) parts of the boat
. Experimentation can come later (if desired)
when the principles of building a wood boat are understood and they have the safe one ( following the designers suggestions on how to make it )
to paddle and enjoy.
To paraphrase what I said... You learned to crawl before you walked , then when walking you learned to run , after that drive a car and do all the rest .... Everything has steps to the learning process and it is best to start with step #1.
The above expressions are my thoughts on this and mine alone. Especially since a lot of you know I step way out side the box when building some boats for my enjoyment.
But that is just me and I have made a couple ... OK , a few but not a lot of them.
If I offended anyone then Please accept my apologies
for doing that since that was not my intent.
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:44 pm
All that Chucky said. I just like tormenting Matt.